Farzad Mesbahi is an Ex-Tesla employee, who worked there for 4 years in different roles. In this video I talk with him about Tesla’s culture and mission, his mistakes, his Tesla investment thesis, and so much more.
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- Follow Farzad on Twitter: https://twitter.com/farzyness
- Subscribe to Farzad on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@farzyness/
- Farzad being interviewed on @DearSophia42 (thank you Hans for the excellent comments during the livestream!): https://youtu.be/PNjMoaY4IQE
- The Innovator’s Dilemma: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1633691780
- Tesla Anti-Handbook Handbook: http://www.ceconline.com/PDF/Tesla-Anti-Handbook-Handbook.pdf
- 100 Baggers: How to turn $1 into $100 (with a single investment): https://youtu.be/9JiS3DGPEGs
- The Rise of Tesla: A Deep Dive For Long-Term Investors: https://youtu.be/PnUDSY2qaYQ
- Interview with Bitcoin Maximalist Fabio Andreatta (trying to poke holes into his thesis): https://youtu.be/w0w6iHgMffc
Remo Uherek 0:24
Hi, friends, we are live and we’re having another special video today an interview with someone who worked for years at Tesla and is also running an amazing YouTube channel. farside Xmas bah he welcome to my channel.
Farzad Mesbahi 0:42
Thank you so much for having me Remo really appreciate your, your hospitality. And yeah, I’m super excited to talk about whatever you want to talk about. Hello, everybody out there in the global universe, earth, whatever. Hello.
Remo Uherek 0:55
Absolutely. So So if anyone wants to ask questions or anything, our comments, of course are open, the live chat is open. So just ask it and then I can bump it up. It will be a long form conversation, we’re go, we will go as long as we as we’d like and provide value to you. So maybe I would just like to start your time at Tesla. So if Yeah, maybe I share my screen. I’ve prepared some, some tabs here. So let’s see. Exactly the anti handbook handbook. That’s my first question. Is that a hoax? Or is that a real thing that you really receive that or what’s what’s the story behind
Farzad Mesbahi 1:42
that? 100%? Yeah, 100% first day, I was there, for my orientation, what my orientation was, my orientation was being thrown into the fire, literally, the second I walked in, and then during lunchtime was my actual orientation. So the first four hours was, we need to fix all these things. And then lunchtime was like, okay, oh, by the way, here are the HR documents. So the anti handbook was 100%. there and it existed, and it was actually quite, it was a very, I think it sets the tone for an employee when they first walk in, that’s very unique. One, the book, if you can call it a book is like, what, four pages? Yeah, four pages. So it’s super short. And super, to the point. And it, it emphasizes my takeaway was when I read it, and emphasizes how, how much the company trusts the individual to do the right thing, and to work on the right things, and to really do everything they can as an individual to bring value to the company, and that they should never be afraid to reach out to anybody else to get the right thing done. That was my takeaway from the handbook. And it took me literally like, what, five minutes to read it. Whereas you go to any other any other company, you literally have to take an entire week to read their whatever they have, and you want to kill yourself because it’s all in legalese. You know, it’s like, it’s like a lawyer sat down and wrote, it’s like, What the hell kind of value you’re trying to bring, by having me sit here and like, you know, it’s like, it’s like, hey, here are all the things you can’t do. Like, you wouldn’t you’re not allowed to do any of these. This is like, Hey, this is what you should do. So and it’s so it was so refreshing. It was so awesome. But it’s very real. It’s very real. And I wish more companies sort of took that kind of approach, because it’s, it’s very inspiring. It sets a tone. The second you walk in, here you go. Okay, cool. I’m in the right place. Yeah, it’s very cool.
Remo Uherek 3:32
Yeah, it says, we’re a high tech company, unlike any other high tech company, and then we’re different. And we like it that way. And it just, I love that. And I love it, that it’s that it’s real. So probably, I will make a separate video about it really go deep, because I really want to put that information out. I think it’s really needed by other companies and that other companies are inspired by things like that. Because I think Elon is companies are so such no bullshit. And and yeah, I really, I really love that attitude. And I think it deserves to be to be spread as widely as possible.
Farzad Mesbahi 4:09
I agree. I think I think the what the My biggest takeaway from my time there, like that’s tied to this handbook, is that it’s really a, an exercise in maximizing the trust in the individual. And, and if you’re a business that really prioritizes hiring people that are going to fit that sort of culture you’re trying to build, and you give them the keys to run the company and you give them all the power possible to allow that individual to decide how to build those companies in the best way that they can. Then you have a surefire success as long as you’re hiring the right type of people and your leader and your leadership group rather, uphold those values every single day. If you don’t do that this whole thing is a complete and utter disaster. Because you’re just saying I Anybody do whatever you want, right? So it has to hinge. And it has to be built around this very, like very delicate, but very powerful sort of relationship between folks that are in charge of leading the company and folks that are in charge of building the company. And this sort of handbook brings those two things together. It’s like, Hey, this is how we’re gonna do it. This is how we’re going to approach it. But it requires that trust, it requires that trust, which I, at least from my experience, you know, the companies that I worked at have been incredible. And mentoring me, you know, Tesla Phillips, before that I was there for seven years. Like, there are so many people I have to thank for the development I had, but I hear so many stories from so many different people from so many different companies that they’re like, Dude, I feel like I’m being like, oppressed, like, I can’t get anywhere. Everything is time based, like, Oh, you have to be here six years before you get a promotion. Like none of this shit makes any sense. So like, why can’t we figure out a way to maximize people’s abilities to make an impact as quickly as humanly possible? And that’s the it’s a first principles approach to building a business. This is what this handbook is, you know,
Remo Uherek 6:15
and how does Tesla make sure that this is really lift and not just lip service? So what what have you found from your four years there? Yeah, why does why does this work?
Farzad Mesbahi 6:26
That’s a great question. I think it works. Because the entire leadership group, everybody who, the ones that I was exposed to, I’m not going to speak for every single Tesla employee, it’s over 100,000 people, the ones that I was exposed to, the leaders live this every single day. So the people that you reported to are the people that were you know, making decisions or had a had a lot of influence to move stuff forward. they espouse this, you know, they weren’t like, this is what how I’m going to do it, this is how we’re going to push it. Maybe I shouldn’t say that. There were a couple of situations where that that happened. But then that leader would get called out but like, yeah, what the fuck are you doing, bro? Like, what? How come we’re not anti handbook in here? How come we’re not going this route. So it’s a shared vision by everybody. But I think it’s because everybody’s bought into the mission of the company. Everybody’s bought into what the leader is sort of, in this case, Elon Musk, what that person is driving towards, and they feel like, hey, it’s being done. Honestly, it’s being done with passion in mind. There’s no like, you know, strings are puppeteering that’s going on, at least that’s not what I’m perceiving. And so I trust this individual that they’re speaking in the, from the heart, when they say they’re really trying to move the world towards a sustainable future. And then, you know, having something like this does nothing but empowerment, if if it becomes real. So imagine being in this situation where you’re given the keys to the company, and then within a couple of weeks, you’re already making a positive difference like that. What better rush? What better euphoric sensation do you need from somebody that wants to get stuff done that? So it’s like, you build that trust through that, and you’ll allow everybody to take part of it? And if and if it starts failing, or if people are not doing it the right way, you have immediate feedback, Hey, that’s not correct, hey, this is how we should be doing it. You know, let’s sit down and have a conversation. So the feedback loop is also really, really, really fast. But it requires leadership and individuals to be on their game 100% of the time. And that’s my biggest like, like to this day, I don’t understand how Tesla can be the size that it is, and it can still execute against this blows my mind blows. It really,
Remo Uherek 8:32
it feels from the outside at least I mean, I’ve been a startup startup entrepreneur for 15 years, I’ve been running super, super small businesses, but it feels from the outside as Tesla would still be a startup. Is that true? Also experience
Farzad Mesbahi 8:47
100% The way I would describe Tesla, from my experience is that it’s the it’s an entrepreneurs playground. It’s like, where do you go to school to know what it’s like to be an entrepreneur. So I am not a, I had a small business with my wife, I we had an escape room and Pennsylvania. And this is not like some crazy tech company. Okay, it was two of us. We hired some people to also help us run the business. You know, it’s like, I think revenue we did, I don’t know, not even half a million. So it’s like, it’s a small, it’s a small business. It’s nothing crazy. Maybe we did break I don’t remember. Anyway. We were small, very, very small. But but it was super hardcore in the sense that everything that we built, we built ourselves, anything that broke, we have to fix it. Any ideas that we had, we implement it right? And it was constantly just 24/7 Thinking about how to make the business better, how to make the business better. That’s exactly how Tesla functions as well. And each individual feels like they own a piece of that. I think not just because of the leader or the culture is because Tesla has so sort of how they ensure everybody’s bought in is by literally giving them skin in the game through stock. And that’s another like, you know, variable that they’ve implemented. Air, everyone does feel like they are part of the game and they’re not shy about throwing stock towards you, you know, it’s like, Hey, you’re doing a great job, boom, here’s another chunk, whoa, great job, boom, great job, like, and then you feel like you’re part of it, you feel like you’re part of it, you know, it’s, and from my experience, I found that a lot of people not only appreciate it, that, but they thrived in it. Because they know like, long term, if they really do execute, and get the company to where it needs to be in the long term, then they gain that financial independence through that work as well. And then it’s up to them if they want to continue on that mission, or they go do their own thing. You know, it’s a, it’s like a startup culture and a huge company. And I feel like for a company that wants to change as much as humanly possible. That is the type of recipe you need. Yeah,
Remo Uherek 10:49
absolutely. And how is it maintained, like from a hiring and firing perspective, so So how strict is it? If you Is it a one strike policy or a three strike policy? And then you’re out? Or how did you experience it? To maintain it, you also need to make sure that people leave, right, that don’t, right, that don’t fit?
Farzad Mesbahi 11:10
Yeah, so from my experience, it was very much three strikes, it wasn’t like, you make one mistake, you’re out. That’s that’s not what I was. Because that’s kind of like, screwed up. You know, like, that doesn’t make any sense. But but the time, the time to correct from what I found was very, very strict. So it’s like, hey, like, three strikes. Like, we don’t even talk about strikes, we’re like, hey, let’s sit down. Let’s say somebody’s not like going up to standard, it was sit down, let’s make sure we give each other as much time as humanly possible, we have a real conversation about what’s going on. It’s a great leadership values, you know, what I’m saying that, like, that’s how great leaders act, they sit down, like, hey, human to human, what, what’s going on? You know, what’s going on? Help me understand, like, what’s going on in your life? Is there give me anything specific or anything, but is there something I can do to help, you know, like to get you up to that level, but then you’re also very, very strict about hey, but just to let you know, that if we don’t get up to this level, you know, we’re going to have to move on. And what’s unique about that is that from my experience, working at the company, this wasn’t something that tests are like, like, permeated across the company that just said, Just uphold the values of Let’s do everything we can to make the company as good as possible. And then our leadership group was like, okay, the way our takeaway, when we worked with the company at the time was, let’s just make sure we give everybody a fair shot, you know, and of course, HR is like, yeah, don’t fire anybody right away, you got to make sure you go through like, like a period of retraining and all that stuff. But then we sort of implemented it in that perspective, or it’s like, okay, let’s actually sit down and make sure we have true conversations with them, but be very, very strict about timing, and making sure that they understand how, how and what they need, like what they need to do, and how they should approach it to get to that point. And then, and support them every step of the way. But it also takes a lot of time. Like you have to invest a lot of time in making sure your your teams are being as effective as humanly possible, especially through that retraining process. But then the other side of it, too, is because Tesla has such a unique magnet and Elon Musk and sort of the mission, that you’re already attracting the criminal crime. So it’s like you have a, an embarrassing amount of talent you’re pulling from and then so the chances of that talent being high value is very high, especially versus other companies. So from that perspective, I don’t I think Tesla has an unfair advantage, because they typically hire the best because the best one to go to Tesla. So it’s like, Alright, maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, because I had an embarrassment of riches. So it’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s a very unique situation of that companies. And
Remo Uherek 13:52
it’s like a positive feedback loop. Right? I mean, exactly. If you’re getting the the impairment, then you can perform, if you can perform, then this attracts also better people, and so on and so forth. So I think this is a really a, a great a great loop that they that they have going Did you have any any such problems with your managers? Or did you screw up in any way? That was countered to the to the culture? Can you maybe talk about one or two such stories?
Farzad Mesbahi 14:19
Yeah, there were a couple of times where I, I made mistakes for sure. Like, the biggest one that I can talk about is I implemented a process for the outbound. So just to give a background for everybody, I worked in the in the supply chain, part of the business, I was part of the distribution to service distribution group for parts. So our role was to, you know, we had a warehouse in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania was still there. A lot of my friends still work there. And that’s it still exists. We had a warehouse, we have a warehouse, they have a warehouse, where they ship parts to body shops and service centers, and they’re part of the sort of this global distribution group. And while I was working at the company, the network was much smaller, so like bath to him was a significant percentage of the total college global distribution for parts and service Signet like way more than it should have been at the time. But it’s like, that’s when you have an exploding business that’s growing so fast. That’s the dynamic you have. And then our role was to ensure that parts got to serve as senators as quick as humanly possible in the best way that they can, so on and so forth. So my role was to help the, essentially the network grow as fast as humanly possible help in any way I can, through not just dashboarding and analytics, which is what I did, but through process improvement, some industrial engineering, stuff like that inventory control, management, receiving, put away, forgetting shipping, packing everything. So there was a change, I wanted to put in place where the outbound process, I thought, I thought was going to get 50% faster. And what I didn’t do is I didn’t check with the team to verify that the team was bought into this process. And I’m like, Hey, let’s just put this, you know, tomorrow, let’s put this in tomorrow. Let’s go as fast as humanly possible, because we can go to 50%. And then, you know, we implemented it, and then guess what we were when we went down 50%. Because, oh, maybe I should have checked with a team and gone through the process of like, hey, getting buy in and ensuring the individual has the people that are doing the work, make sure they have some sort of like input into this thing. Instead of me thinking I’m this hotshot, boom, 50% Higher, nope. 50% Lower. So but that was a very honest conversation with my leader, you know, who who’s really good friend, now, his name’s Greg. You know, he was like, like, Okay, so let’s talk through what we didn’t do. Like, what What didn’t we do that to get buy in, we didn’t talk to individual, you didn’t vet it. And you know, you’re down 50%. So and so the, what one of the things we had was, you can do whatever you want, as long as you can fix it, it, you can do whatever you want. And if it breaks, you have 24 hours to fix it. So that was kind of like a safety net, that the leader Greg put in place that said, hey, and, like, try whatever you want, but just make sure you go in there and fix. And so if you’re the individual that doesn’t go in and fix after they make a mistake, and then you get that so called Strike, right. So that sort of culture allows and encourages people to try things if you really think about it, right. But then you’re also holding them accountable that if they break it, they better fix it. Because if they don’t fix it, the hammer comes down, right? I’m proud to say I never got a strike. But it’s at the same time, I think I had a, I had an incredible leader and Greg, like he did such a good job, dude. Like, he does such a good job. And he espoused those values of Tesla, you know, like, allow everybody to try, allow everybody to maximize their potential, and just hold them accountable, hold them accountable. And yeah, and I learned a lot through that. It taught me not to be scared to try things, it taught me not to be fearful of trying big ideas. And it also taught me to bite the bullet when when you when you do something wrong, and fix it and do whatever you can to, to make it better for not just yourself, but your peers. So a lot of lessons learned like that, the more I think back to my time there, I feel like boy, like the amount of lessons I’ve learned is completely not. And I think a lot of people that work there, especially in teams that are say newer, and they’re really going at the speed of light. I bet you these are very defining moments for not just a career, but like their personal development, because it really is a it really is a very high pressure, super fast environment that forces you to try your best, especially if you’re bought into the mission and sort of feeling like you’re part of changing the world. It’s It’s wild. It’s completely wild. And to this day, I’m so thankful for those experiences. Yeah.
Remo Uherek 18:51
Is this culture compatible with for example, raising a family? So can you talk about the demographics of people that Tesla attracts? So is it mostly younger people that are definitely skews younger?
Farzad Mesbahi 19:04
Or? Yeah, yeah, it skews younger. I don’t know. I don’t know if what their family situations are, but it definitely skews younger, from what I saw. Now. We also saw a a very diverse group of people working there, like from all walks of life, all skin tones, all preferences all ages, but it definitely does. I would say skew younger, because I think the like, I would explain it this way, the company in no way shape or form forces you to be there more than 80 hours a week. Or Yeah, more than 40 hours a week rather. But like everybody does, because they want to make a difference. It’s it’s very similar to startup I’m sure you can sort of talk about this. Whereas like people want to be there. People want to kill it. That’s what Tesla is. You know, and so when you hear about these, like news reports like that, I take a lot of like It really grinds my gears to like, oh, Elon is a slave driver. Oh, Tesla is a place where you’re forced to work like No, from what I saw is people just want to really work hard. And they surround themselves with other people that really want to work hard. And then what ends up happening is individuals just really want to work hard. You know, there’s nobody saying, don’t take vacation. I never experienced anything. I had people telling me, dude, take a break, take some PTO like to go on break, take some time off. You’re crazy. I’m like, Well, yeah, but I want to make sure that, you know, like, I was so close. It was that mentality. So it’s, again, it’s a it’s a feedback loop. You know, and some people might say, well, you know, that’s not good for work life balance. I agree. It’s not good for work life balance. But it’s up to you. And I think in my opinion, maybe this is very American of me. But it’s always up to the individual to decide how much work they want to put into something. Because that maximizes the chances of people that want to work hard to actually create something of value, instead of like putting these arbitrary like, like, like a roof on people’s capabilities that says, Well, no, don’t work more than 40 hours. Like, why? Why not? If I’m if I’m here, like, I’m in flow state for the week, and I’m freaking cranking it out, I’m going crazy. Why can’t I work? 80 hours, why cannot work 100 hours, No one’s forcing you I’m deciding to do it myself. That sort of culture is very much alive at Tesla, at least when I was there. And from all I hear from my people, like friends that are still in there seems exactly the same. So I don’t you know, I think to this day, it’s still that type of
Remo Uherek 21:31
culture. And it’s okay, that it’s not for everyone, right? I mean, it’s, it’s just for a subset of people. And I think I would be out of school, or maybe the first or second job in my between 20 and 30. I would love it, I would really love it. And I think I would, if I would go back, it would really compete with with me being an entrepreneur, because I think I would maybe even be more impactful at a company like like Tesla, instead of doing my own thing. But if I look at my current state, I’m almost 40 I have kids, I have a family, and it would absolutely not be compatible. It’s just not the lifestyle I would like to live most. I think it’s a I think, yeah, I think that’s what people need to realize that people self select into such an environment, and that it’s completely okay, if they really work hard, single focus, basically no friends or just friends at work, and basically adjust your flow, state and impact. But yeah, at one point, after five years, or 10 years, it’s done, the life phase is over. And then you move on. And I think that’s completely, that’s completely fine.
Farzad Mesbahi 22:35
Let me give you an alternative to that, too. There’s, I’ve also seen people that do have families that have kids that are there 40 hours a week, and then I can kill on it. Because they’re very high value in those 40 hours, right? So it comes down to the individual, I think it’s a trick, it’s a trick that a lot of humans, we play on ourselves, where we like connect time with value. It’s like, oh, I have to be here more than 40 hours. I have to be here more than this time. But like we don’t sit down and actually analyze what is my value to time ratio? Like, how much value am I actually generating? I saw people, you know, majority of the people did, were there quite a lot longer than 40 hours. But were a few bad asses like hardcore badass is, no matter how much you’re worth, like, like, like 4045 hours, I’m like, Holy shit, yeah. And then I talked to their peers, just bringing up the name just out of conversation like, this dude’s a frickin beast, like he or she knows what they’re doing. I’m like, okay, got it. So it’s value does bring value. And if the value like aligns with the, like, the speed of the company, and you’re not slowing it down, but you’re at the very least continuing, and the best case scenario is accelerating that company’s mission. And who cares how long you work, you know, who cares how long you work, the thing is, there’s just so much to do that, you know, the individual could very much fill up their entire day with work. So it becomes an exercise of like, a will and like, and like and like discipline, you know? Yeah, like self control. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It’s a very like, it’s a very human condition type of question. And because Tesla has so few guardrails, it really allows the manifestation of a lot of those different sort of variables that makes a human a human as it pertains to value creation at work. It’s a fascinating, like, this is what really interests me so much about the company. It’s this dynamic sector conflict, like it’s like, a magnet for humans to try their hardest. And the humans decision on how hard they want to try. It’s completely mind boggling. Yeah.
Remo Uherek 24:33
But then let’s, let’s maybe talk about the flip side. If you look at like companies, like big consulting companies, or like big accounting firms, there is like this peer pressure, which is really hard that people are also there at 100 hours a week, but it’s like super peer pressure. It’s like negative it’s like toxic. So have you seen like, people burn out and and like Yeah, taking the toll on their, on their mental health, etc. Is that also a PART part of that culture or just parts are just like, like a side effect of that?
Farzad Mesbahi 25:10
I think I think for some it is, yeah, I mean, I saw with my own two eyes, I saw people that I worked very close with, like, getting burned out, because they were, they were going so hard. You know, it’s like, it’s not rainbow, it’s not, it’s not a rainbow road. I want to make sure that’s very clear for everybody to understand. And Tesla is like, very open about that at the very beginning. This ain’t easy. It’s not easy. It’s hard. And it’s uncomfortable. Like, the parallel I draw is, if you’ve been following the whole Twitter thing right now, with Elon for the last five or six weeks, you know, like how hectic and chaotic it feels, you know, that discomfort of disruption. That is how it feels like in that company. You’re constantly disrupting you’re like your own self, you’re disrupting what you’re working on, you’re in disrupting or what other people are working on. So that feeling of disruption and working as hard as you can to push forward sucks so bad. But once you reach that goal, and it you see, like what we’re 1000 times better, it becomes addicting. But some things are really, really hard, really, really hard. And then the the individuals capability to take it to the end, right? Sometimes is not enough in that period of time that they’re living in, right. So that’s what burnout is, is an individual’s, their glass is empty, you know, they didn’t have enough water in the class. And so depending on who it is, what stage in their life, they’re in, what is going on personally, that glass is going to be drained of, of water or beer, whatever that person uses for fuel, right. And because of work is so demanding, there are individuals that burn out 100% 100% That is the flip side of like that you so beautifully described, that is the flip side of having that very individual trust, focus, allowing the individual to do what they how much work they feel like they need to put in to make something happen. That’s absolutely the flip side, because some individuals just don’t either they don’t know their limits, like me, I’m a perfect example of that I can work until I’m dead. And my end, I’m like, Oh, I died. What happened? Like that’s, that’s just how I am. So if I didn’t have my wife, I would literally be dead, from like working myself to heart. Yeah, it’s 100% part of that. But then the question becomes, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Right? Because the way I view it is, I always lean on the side of allowing the individual to fulfill whatever they want to do. And then those side effects are things that perhaps we have to analyze better, and say, what are the things we could have done in the middle to to maybe delay or eliminate the chance of burnout, maybe it’s like, having a really good peer group that says, Don’t work yourself too hard, you know, hey, just a reminder Don’t work too hard. Take breaks. And that happened, like literally that happened. But people are just like Africa that can go harder. And before going to the collapse, not like collapse where like mentally they’re drained. And then they have to go on vacation and just be like, well, they leave the company because they feel like it’s just too much. You know, that’s what
Remo Uherek 28:19
I actually that’s, that’s what I actually think about a lot. Now, these days, especially in terms of Tesla’s mission, to make the world more sustainable. And I think one part of sustainability is also to sustain your own employees and to sustain yourself. Because if you burn out, and if you have to quit, or if you need half a year of break, because you work yourself too hard, that’s not sustainable. And it’s actually a net loss for the company, and yourself and everybody around you. So I think for a company that wants to bring the world to sustainability, I think it would be fantastic if this would also be part of the culture. And apparently, it is, as you describe, so I think that’s, that’s good, because when I compare it, I had friends at big accounting firms, etc. And this is such so toxic that you are basically forced to work so hard. And basically, there is almost no other way than to leave the company after a couple of years or burnouts, or Yeah, or just don’t have any friends and social life.
Farzad Mesbahi 29:24
Yeah. But the flip side of that is it’s like those consulting firms. What’s their mission? Right, exactly. That’s, that’s the, that’s the dark side of that story is that they are they’re doing it just just because they they want to, they want to make they’re being forced to do so that the company makes more money and they’re forced to this so that the big to appease the boss so that they can get a promotion or to make their individual lives better. There’s nothing wrong with that. I’m not saying there’s anything good or bad but like, but think about the context of that relationship. And I’m, I might be projecting but this is how I think about that. Versus a company that has a very good Mission in a culture that is bigger than self that is bigger than that it’s truly like, say world changing, then that dynamic changes a little bit. Because it’s, I think there’s more individualism and in that pathway than, say, your typical super toxic work environment, where your bosses like literally like working your as hard as they can. And of course, as an individual, you can just leave, you know, but that kind of culture is very like cutthroat in the worst way, is the way I would think, which is very, like, self absorbed and very like, do as I say, or suffer the consequences. And an individual feels forced to do that, because of whatever’s going on in their life, maybe they’re trying to build a career, which again, these are all good things for the individual. But the pathway to get there is rough, is rough. So it’s a fascinating thing to think about, I think, as well. So. But yeah, it is encouraged, taking breaks is encouraged, it’s very much encouraged, it’s just the individual sometimes doesn’t. And it’s the human condition.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai